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CitarGálvez was a hero, but revolutionary is a dirty word. Not the best choice.
Furor celticus.
"And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."
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Gálvez was a hero, but revolutionary is a dirty word. Not the best choice.
Furor celticus.
I can see what you mean, given that Spain didn't choose to support the American coloonies because they were rebelling against the English monarchy. This would've sent the wrong message to Spain's own colonial subjects.Iniciado por Hyeronimus
"And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."
Miembro Respetado
No, that's not what I meant. I was speaking as a Traditionalist. In other words, from the opposite side of the Revolution. But I am aware that you undoubtedly meant it in a more positive sense.
Mater
Annuit, for us, traditionalists, Revolution is not a positive word as they (revolutions) normally go agaisnt Tradition: French Revolution, the Reformation, etc... we are, on the other side, counter-revolutionary, counter-Reforma.
“La verdadera fe es incolora, por decirlo así, como el aire y el agua; medio transparente a través del cual el alma ve a Cristo. Nuestros ojos no ven el aire y de la misma manera nuestra alma no se detiene a contemplar su propia fe. Cuando, por consiguiente, los hombres toman esta fe como si dijéramos en las manos, la inspeccionan curiosamente, la analizan, se absorben en ella, se ven forzados a materializarla, a darle color para que pueda ser tocada y vista. En otros términos, sustituyen a ella, colocan sobre ella, cierto sentimiento, cierta impresión, cierta idea, cierta convicción, algo en fin en que la atención pueda prenderse. Cristo les interesa menos que lo que llaman ellos sus experiencias. Los vemos trabajando para seguir en sí mismos los signos de la conversión, la variación de sus sentimientos aspiraciones y deseos: los vemos ponerse a conversar con los demás sobre todo esto. ”. John Henry Newman
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I can't agree with you
Spain supported the American Colonies with, at least, 5 millions dollars...
There is two threads in Spanish on this matter.
La independencia de los Estados Unidos y la contribución española
and
Bernardo de Gálvez
In the first link you can read
RegardsEspaña contribuyó por lo menos 5 millones de dólares a la causa,
.....
Esto es solo parte de lo que España donó a los estadounidenses. También debemos destacar que los barcos rebeldes norteamericanos recibieron refugio en puertos españoles del caribe y México a espaldas de Inglaterra.
Fueron muchos los hispanos que lucharon por la independencia de las trece colonias, peninsulares y criollos se unieron en la lucha. Un español que merece especial reconocimiento lo es el gobernador de Luisiana Bernardo de Gálvez quien lideró la toma de Pensacola (ciudad en la Florida, sur de EEUU).
....
Gálvez tomó la ciudad junto a milicias procedentes de Luisiana, Cuba y Puerto Rico.
Podriamos seguir escribiando el dia entero ya que fue grandisima la ayuda que brindó el mundo hispano a la independencia de la nacion estadounidense,pero prefiero ser breve.
Deseo terminar con unas palabras del general George Washington en 1779 "Me alegro en deciros que España finalmente a tomado acción decisiva...esperemos que esta unión con la Casa Borbón permita el establecimiento de la libertad en America".
Furor celticus.
Christabel,
I understand very well what you're talking about, however.. Americans regard the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, and the other founding documents in general, as our tradition. Our American revolution was not against a religious tradition but against a tyrannical monarchy that was oppressing free men and free women in the English colonies in North America.It was a secular revolution, and nothing like the sacred revolution of Martin Luther et al.
Americans have always been a very religious and spiritual people, which I think that you know.Catholicism is the single largest religion in America and many Catholic churches in the nation perform the Tridentine Mass, a few in my hometown. :O
"And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."
Furor celticus.
For any English-speaker who mightn't be familiar with the Carlists here it is:
Carlism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The history of the Spanish and English colonies in the Americas is long and complex and is often reflective of the mutual love/hate relationship between the mother-countries. For me, when I think of Spain's involvement in American independence I think of names like de Galvez. Farragut. Etc.
"And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."
Miembro Respetado
And also this thread you opened some time ago:
Carlists in the American Civil War.
Última edición por Hyeronimus; 10/08/2011 a las 20:55
Furor celticus.
Ah thanks! That was a surprising find actually. The last history of the U.S. Civil War that I read was pretty standard in that it mentions the usual: states' rights vs, federalism, slavery, black soldiers, etc. To find such information you've got to think outside of the mindset of a typical classroom-educated American (it also helps to have knowledgeable conversants who can provide corroborating information). There were foreign contingents that fought in the U.S. Civil War, most notably the Irish Brigades, but it was a pleasant surprise to find Spanish exiles fighting for the Confederacy.
That website again is:
SPANIARD CONFEDERATES
It's helpful for me to learn about this stuff because it opens up locked boxes of American history.
Última edición por Annuit Coeptis; 10/08/2011 a las 19:59
"And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."
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