Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
http://www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/after.jpg
On the 23rd of October a sortie by French Commodore Julien Cosmao from Cadiz with Pluton, Indomptable, Neptuno, Rayo, and San Francisco de Asis attempted to recapture some of the British prizes. Santa Anna and Algeciras were recovered, but Neptuno, Indomptable, and San Francisco de Asis were wrecked and Rayo was taken by the Donegal and then wrecked.
On the 3rd of November, Admiral Strachan, with Caesar 80, Hero 74, Courageux 74, Namur 74, and four frigates defeated and captured the force of four French ships which had escaped at Trafalgar under Dumanoir: Formidable 80, Duguay-Trouin 74, Mont Blanc 74, and Scipion 74. All four are taken into the Royal Navy, with Formidable renamed Brave, Duguay-Trouin renamed Implacable, and the other two keeping their names. The Victory was towed into Gibraltar her masts and sails shot to pieces. The casualties were high, as might be expected in such a close fought action. The British lost 449 men killed and 1241 wounded (some of whom subsequently died), the French and Spanish fleets lost 4408 men killed and 2545 wounded, ( figures are from Lewis 'A Social History of the Navy').
The ultimate outcome of the victory was to secure the supremacy of the British navy on the high seas for the next hundred years, and the end to any threat of invasion from France. It lead Napoleon to his Continental strategy, and possibly to his disastrous campaign against the Russians in 1812.
Battle of Trafalgar Casualty List
Ship |
Guns |
Commander |
Killed/Wounded |
Victory |
100 |
Capt. Thomas Masterman Hardy |
57/102 |
Temeraire |
98 |
Capt. Eliab Harvey |
47/76 |
Neptune |
98 |
Capt Thomas Francis Freemantle |
10/34 |
Leviathan |
74 |
Capt Henry William Bayntun |
4/22 |
Britannia |
100 |
Capt Charles Bullen |
10/42 |
Conquerer |
74 |
Capt Israel Pellew |
3/9 |
Africa |
64 |
Capt Henry Digby |
18/44 |
Agamemnon |
64 |
Capt Sir Edward Berry |
2/8 |
Ajax |
74 |
Lieut John Pilford |
2/9 |
Orion |
74 |
Capt Edward Codrington |
1/23 |
Minotaur |
74 |
Capt Charles John Moore Mansfield |
3/22 |
Spartiate |
74 |
Capt Sir Francis Laforey |
3/20 |
Royal Sovereign |
100 |
Capt Edward Rotheram |
47/94 |
Belleisle |
74 |
Capt William Hargood |
33/93 |
Mars |
74 |
Capt George Duff |
29/69 |
Tonnant |
80 |
Capt Charles Tyler |
26/50 |
Bellerophon |
74 |
Capt John Cooke |
27/123 |
Colossus |
74 |
Capt James Nichol Morris |
46/160 |
Achille |
74 |
Capt Richard King |
13/59 |
Dreadnought |
98 |
Capt John Conn |
7/26 |
Polyphemus |
64 |
Capt Robert Redmill |
2/4 |
Revenge |
74 |
Capt Robert Moorsom |
28/51 |
Swiftsure |
74 |
Capt William Gordon Rutherford |
9/8 |
Defiance |
74 |
Capt Philip Charles Durham |
17/53 |
Thunderer |
74 |
Lieut John Stockham |
4/12 |
Defence |
74 |
Capt George Hope |
7/29 |
Prince |
98 |
Capt Richard Grindall |
Euryalis |
36 |
Capt Hon Henry Blackwood |
Naiad |
38 |
Capt Thomas Dundas |
Phoebe |
36 |
Capt Hon Thomas Bladen Capell |
Sirius |
36 |
Capt William Prowse |
Pickle |
10 |
Lieut John Richards La Penotiere |
Entreprenante |
8 |
Lieut Robert Benjamin Young |
2 Archivos adjunto(s)
Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
On account of the Second Treaty of San Idelfonso, Spain was obligued to be allied with France in case of war against their common enemy, the British Empire. The treaty had been signed by Manuel Godoy, Charles IV's prime minister and quite a dishonest and dishonorable man in many ways and very detrimental to our nation. It does not make much sense to glorify the traditional enemies of Spain and the Hispanic territories in a Hispanic forum. And let me remind you that Nelson lost his arm when he was trying to conquer the Spanish island of Tenerife, in the Canaries. British pirates had been attacking Spanish coasts and vessels for centuries on both sides of the Atlantic. The French were not necessarily our friends either. I don't question the courage and strategic abilities of the Brithish officers. But I honestly don't think this forum is the place to honor them. The real heroes are:
Cosme_Damián_de_Churruca, who commanded the 74-gun San Juan Nepomuceno in the Battle of Trafalgar, when a cannonball caused him injuries that cost him his life. It seems that he made true the words he said before the battle: “ |
Si llegas a saber que mi navío ha sido hecho prisionero, di que he muerto.
[If you come to hear that my ship has been captured, say I am dead] |
” |
—Cosme Damián Churruca [1]
|
Churruca, whose leg had been torn off by a cannonball, the deck of his ship covered by the blood of his wounded and dead seamen, continued to voice the command "fire". After Trafalgar, the ship was taken into British service as HMS San Juan and served as a supply hulk for many years at Gibraltar. In honour of Churruca's courage, the cabin he had occupied while alive bore his name on a brass plate, and all who entered it were required to remove their hats as a mark of respect for a gallant enemy.
as well as Dioniso Alcalá Galiano, who bravely remained in his post while his ship was being destroyed and he was wounded first in a leg, then on his face, losing a large amount of blood and finally being hit by a cannonball which blew his head apart.
Or Federico Gravina, of whom Napoleon said, "Gravina is all genius and decision in combat. If Villeneuve had had those qualities, the battle of Finisterre would have been a complete victory". Gravina lost his arm in the battle and died a few months later because of the resulting infection. As any noble-minded military officer, he respected and admire his enemy even if he fought as it was his duty, and is reported to have said on his deathbed of his one-arm counterpart Nelson, "I am a dying man, but I die happy; I am going, I hope and trust, to join Nelson, the great hero". The Gribraltar Chronicle said of him: "Spain loses in Gravina the most distinguished officer in her navy; one under whose command her fleets, though sometimes beaten, always fought in such a manner as to merit the encomiums of their conquerors".
As you can see, although we lost the battle we came out of it with honor and still commemorate its heroes.
I know you did not mean to offend, Annuit.
Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
Cita:
A monumental sea battle that helped to turn the tide against revolutionary France- and which helped to put Spain in the camp of the British-and Prussian-commanded coalition. Sadly the U.S. spent more time cozying up to Boney than opposing him.
Dear Annuit Coeptis. Nearly all the historians are unanimous in putting the trascendental moment in which changed "the tide" against revolutionary-napoleonic progress in the defeat which suffered in the Hispanic Península in 1808 thanks to the spanish popular-militar Raising, which took place as a consecuence of the betrayal of Napoleon which broke the oficial alliance that Spain had with France getting his army in spanish territory and kidnapping the Spanish King Ferdinand VII (a terrible error which he paid dearly, as he himself recogniced in his Diary).
Respect the battle of Trafalgar, many historians recognice the artificial importance which has given later to this event by the british (I mean in relation to the effects which had agaisnt Napoleon. The british had other naval victorys and defeats before and after this battle in the middle of his war against Napoleon, or against other nations like the Spanish Monarchy). The principal effect of this battle was the absolute destroy of the spanish Armada, the first naval power in that moment, and which had big problems to reestablish thenceforth (principaly because the triumph of the anticatholic antihispanic Revolution in Spain in 1833, something which will be seen later in its consequences in the Hispanic-Angloamerican war of 1898).
Certainly the aliance with the Revolutionary France (since the deplorable treatises of Basilea in 1795 and Ildefonso in 1796 signed by the masonic and betrayer prime minister Godoy -one of the worst government´s chief of Spanish Monarchy`s History) was a complete calamitous thing in relation to the preservation of christian order in the Continent (at least the order which there was yet as relics before the coming of the French Revolution and Napoleonic spreading of this anticatholic Revolution). But that doesn´t mean that the Revolutinary Regime of Britain was the solution agaisnt this French Revolution or the British Regime represented the good order. This is a thing which is very important to set, because the revolutionary anticatholic regime of Britain (a product of the Revolution of 1533 and Revolution of 1688) was part of the problem and not of the authentic (catholic) solution.
In relation to the Trafalgar´s Battle itself, simply saying that the defeat of spanish-france navy was principaly due to the general incompetence (something that admited even Napoleon) in navy battles of the chief admiral Villeneuve. Anyway, this was a defeat with honor (the very competent spanish admirals went to the battle in pursuance of the -calamitous, I repeat- treatises before alluded, because it was their obligation), unlike the defeat without honor in the Hispanic-Angloamerican war of 1898 (at that moment, I remember, Spain was controlled by a Revolutionary Regime, which explains the cause of the lack of honor in this last defeat).
Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
Excuse my unintended faux pas. My intention was to point to a specific moment of history- the defeat of the Corsican rebel's ill-gotten fleet by Lord Nelson I'm certainly not trying to lionize the U.K. and the illegal House of Windsor. :( I am a son of the U.S., an Anglosaxon who is returning to the Faith that existed before Henry VIII; I have an old, native dislike of British monarchs- but I dislike Cromwell more than George III, who had some Catholic sympathies. My ideal king is Alfred the Great (of the House of Wessex; he was an ancestor of Isabel of Castile!), the first King of the Anglo-Saxons- and a devout son of Holy Church who went to Rome once- or twice if I do recall correctly. :toyfeliz:
Digression aside I am fascinated by the period of the Napoleonic conflicts since it has a very profound influence on my own county. The Duke of Wellington was concerned about the grain supply from America after England, Portugal, and Spain allied against the French:
Napoleon Series: War of 1812 Issue 5
:umm:
The hawks in Congress had long had their eyes on the Spanish territories in the New World. During the presidency of U.S. Grant the louts of Congress tried to start a war with Spain over Cuba:
American President: Ulysses S. Grant: Foreign Affairs
The Spanish-American War of 1898 is a "false-flag" incident as far as I'm concerned.
False flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:umm:
If I've offended anyone then please rebuke me; I do apologize for my circumstantial ignorance. Yanks these days aren't exactly well-informed on Spanish history- or even U.S. history. :no3:
Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
Dear Annuit,
As I said at the end of my post, I was sure you did not mean to offend, and I don't doubt the high esteem in which you have all things Hispanic. It's all right. We all have a lot to learn, including me.
Re: The Battle of Trafalgar
Cita:
Iniciado por
Hyeronimus
Dear Annuit,
As I said at the end of my post, I was sure you did not mean to offend, and I don't doubt the high esteem in which you have all things Hispanic. It's all right. We all have a lot to learn, including me.
You are correct; we all have a lot to learn and I've come to the conclusion that many of the things that I used to believe are incorrect (or an exaggeration)- as St. Paul says we tend to see things through a dark glass.
Regards.