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Tema: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

  1. #1
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    The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cousins?

    The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    by starling on December 29, 2006


    Scientists have concluded that the Celts did not invade Ireland en masse, nor did they replace an earlier group.

    Despite the widely held belief that the Irish are descended from Celts who invaded Ireland about 2,500 years ago, a 2004 genetic research study at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) appears to argue against it.


    The Celtic cultural heritage in Ireland is prolific and informs the common perceptions and beliefs about the national identity and its origins. From traditional cultural sources in language, legend and literature the Celtic influence is strong and can also be found in contemporary culture such as Enya and the Afro Celt Sound System. The research however suggests that our blood if not also some (at least) of our culture can or should be attributed to wider origins: Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia and North Africa.

    The study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed.

    The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary).

    They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa.

    The scientists concluded that ‘the Irish’ genetic makeup stems from the onset of an ice-age around 15,000 years ago that forced prehistoric man back into Spain, Italy and Greece, which were still fairly temperate. When the ice started melting again around 12,000 years ago, people followed the retreating ice northwards as areas became hospitable again.

    The TCD study produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that are genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic touching Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and includes Galicia in Spain as well as the Basque region.

    Some archaeologists also doubt that there was a Celtic invasion because few of their artifacts have been found in Ireland.

    “The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age.â€� said McEvoy. “They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It’s not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts.â€� We have a much older genetic legacy.

    The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

    Does this finally help explain the ‘dark Irish’ phenomenon?
    [SOURCE]



    Imperium Hispaniae

    "En el imperio se ofrece y se comparte cultura, conocimiento y espiritualidad. En el imperialismo solo sometimiento y dominio económico-militar. Defendemos el IMPERIO, nos alejamos de todos los IMPERIALISMOS."







  2. #2
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Erasmus Ver mensaje
    Cousins?



    [SOURCE]
    Poor Nationalist Galicians, their project has been turned upside down...

  3. #3
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    Thumbs up Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Truly the Irish and Hispanic peoples share a common ancestry! I hope you enjoy this fascinating series of videos from Pat Flannery that examines the cultural, economic, and spiritual links between these two great peoples that have together contributed so much to Western Catholic Civilization.





    Sanctissima Unio Catholica de Hibernia-Hispania | Facebook

    Society for Irish Latin American Studies (SILAS)

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    You know, if the REAL Milesian were to surf these web pages, he might invoke copyright

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly Ver mensaje
    You know, if the REAL Milesian were to surf these web pages, he might invoke copyright
    I think you will be interested in this information about Alejandro O'Reilly. Here is the link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_O%27Reilly

  6. #6
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly Ver mensaje
    You know, if the REAL Milesian were to surf these web pages, he might invoke copyright
    My apologies for the oversight. I was so fascinated by the content of the sites and so eager to post them on this forum that I didn't study the copyright rules. No malice or disrespect was intended. For future postings from these or other sites I will be sure to invoke copyright.

    Erin go Bragh & Viva la Hispanidad

  7. #7
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Tamakun Ver mensaje
    I think you will be interested in this information about Alejandro O'Reilly. Here is the link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_O%27Reilly
    Yes, he had an impressive career indeed,
    Thanks for the link.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Milesian Ver mensaje
    My apologies for the oversight. I was so fascinated by the content of the sites and so eager to post them on this forum that I didn't study the copyright rules. No malice or disrespect was intended. For future postings from these or other sites I will be sure to invoke copyright.

    Erin go Bragh & Viva la Hispanidad
    Hehe, no harm done. Just my strange sense of humour

  9. #9
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    No worries Alejandro! My cousins in Galway, County Clare and Boston have a very similar sense of humor

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    wow this is amazing!, now I now why there are so many similar things between the north of Spain and Irish and even Scotish, are we all from the same family? LOL

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    Thumbs up Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    There is unquestionably a connection!
    Below are images of Irish and Irish-Americans who could easily pass as Northern Spanish or Portuguese.

    Última edición por Milesian; 05/02/2011 a las 08:04

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    This is a very interesting article about the Irish Captain Johnny O’Brien, and his great contribution to the Cuba War of Independence. I was aware of those expeditions, but didn’t know that an Irish Captain was in command of the expeditionary ships.



    John Dynamite: Marine Mambí [1]



    By José Antonio Quintana García




    Translated by David Barnwell

    As is known, one of the reasons for the failure of Cuba’s Ten Years’ War against the Spanish colonial power (1868-1878) was the small number of expeditions to land on the Cuban coast with military supplies for the Liberation Army. The Cuban revolutionary leadership in exile was aware of this, and from 24 February 1895, the date on which the independence struggle broke out for a second time, it assigned priority to the task of importing supplies for the revolutionary forces. Efforts were concentrated in the United States and came mainly from among the tobacco workers, though other elements of the Cuban émigre population were involved to a lesser extent. To make the enterprise more effective, an Expeditionary Department was created, with a constitution approved on 2 August 1896. Colonel Emilio Núñez was placed at its head.




    Imágenes adjuntadas Imágenes adjuntadas

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Well, I think there's another question on this matter that needs an answer of anthropology (Valmadian, I don't really know if you have already addressed this subject here in the forum, forgive me if you did). That question is: were the ancient celts so much pale, blond or read headed, as it's commonly said?

    Even if they were at the start, I believe that after such a long journey of migration, conquest and settlement, that the celts had probably been through a big deal of morphology changes, apart from the more natural cultural changes. I also believe that the celts of Bretagne could be rather different than the celts from Ireland, for instance.

    According to my knowledge of history, no significant iberian presence ever took place in the north-west of the Iberian Peninsula, from where all of my known ancestors were; and yet, I'm as blond as the dark night, as a vast majority of modern galicians and portuguese are. Even considering that the genes responsible for clear eyes and hair are recessive, nothing explains such lack of supposed celtic influence in these peoples modern look... and the same goes for Eire...
    res eodem modo conservatur quo generantur
    SAGRADA HISPÂNIA
    HISPANIS OMNIS SVMVS

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    We should be careful in our definitions.
    "Celtic" is purely a cultural distinction. Even back in classical and pre-historic times, the Celts were likely not one homogenous tribe but rather various peoples linked by a common culture, common language, common society and religious practices. In other words, they were Celtic because they belonged to a Celtic culture.
    There is no Celtic morphological type just as there is no Celtic gene.

    The Irish and Spanish are genetically very similar. This does not preclude either from being Celtic though.
    Not all of Iberia was Celtic but some of it was, just as Ireland was not always Celtic but became some in time.
    Being Celtic doesn't mean a tribe called the Celts came and took possession of the land. It meant that people settled who were Celts because they brought Celtic culture with them. That is what makes a people Celtic.

    So yes, being Celtic does link Iberian and Hibernia.
    But there is more to it than even that. It goes even further back to beyond Celtic societies (although in fact the Irish Q-Celtic language likely arrived from Iberia as opposed to the P-Celtic of the Britons which was likely related to Gaulish). Personally I am proud of my Celtic heritage. But I realise the links most likely reach back to the first modern humans in Europe. The link is an exceedingly ancient one, which has still not wholly faded but lingers on in an appreciation and respect among each of these ancient peoples for the other.

  15. #15
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Hm, I have Irish ancestry in part. So does this make me an honorary Spaniard? :P
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly Ver mensaje
    We should be careful in our definitions.
    "Celtic" is purely a cultural distinction. Even back in classical and pre-historic times, the Celts were likely not one homogenous tribe but rather various peoples linked by a common culture, common language, common society and religious practices. In other words, they were Celtic because they belonged to a Celtic culture.
    There is no Celtic morphological type just as there is no Celtic gene.
    It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for putting it so clearly.

    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    Hm, I have Irish ancestry in part. So does this make me an honorary Spaniard? :P
    These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here...
    Última edición por Irmão de Cá; 02/03/2011 a las 11:02
    res eodem modo conservatur quo generantur
    SAGRADA HISPÂNIA
    HISPANIS OMNIS SVMVS

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Irmão de Cá Ver mensaje
    It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for putting it so clearly.
    Go ndéana a mhaith duit

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

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    Go ndéana a mhaith duit
    The same for you too... Gaelic is a total shambles to me, eheheh
    res eodem modo conservatur quo generantur
    SAGRADA HISPÂNIA
    HISPANIS OMNIS SVMVS

  19. #19
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    "These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here..."

    I was raised as a Protestant (Methodist) in New York State in the U.S.A. I an Anglo Americano, not a Hispano...

    But, I met.... someone from Andalusia, who made me interested in true Catholicism. Tradismo? Prior to this, I just thought of Catholicism as little better than Methodism (a joke) in the U.S.A.

    Now, I'm also interested in the language, history, and culture of Espana.. Especially how it pertains to the U.S.A.
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Libros antiguos y de colección en IberLibro
    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    "These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here..."
    I was raised as a Protestant (Methodist) in New York State in the U.S.A. I an Anglo Americano, not a Hispano...
    So sorry, you failed to qualify... just kidding ya...
    In truth, to be a catholic is the first and strongest part of being hispanic; all of the culture, all of the hispanic way of life is rooted in the catholic faith; when I return to Portugal after being abroad, I know I'm back home when I see the white, clay roofed villages, when I hear the Church bell ringing the "Trindades" and when I smell grilled sardines, walking the street...
    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    But, I met.... someone from Andalusia, who made me interested in true Catholicism. Tradismo? Prior to this, I just thought of Catholicism as little better than Methodism (a joke) in the U.S.A.
    I didn't mean to imply that "true Catholicism" equals catholic traditionalism... rather, that a true catholic is a honest and coherent one, particularly when it comes to assume that condition in life... on the matter of Catholicism being better than protestantism, I think that faith is not a question of picking up the best religion available in the market, is a question of searching inside of you for what you really believe.

    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    Now, I'm also interested in the language, history, and culture of Espana.. Especially how it pertains to the U.S.A.
    There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example
    res eodem modo conservatur quo generantur
    SAGRADA HISPÂNIA
    HISPANIS OMNIS SVMVS

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