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Tema: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

  1. #21
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Irmão de Cá Ver mensaje
    So sorry, you failed to qualify... just kidding ya...
    I didn't mean to imply that "true Catholicism" equals catholic traditionalism... rather, that a true catholic is a honest and coherent one, particularly when it comes to assume that condition in life... on the matter of Catholicism being better than protestantism, I think that faith is not a question of picking up the best religion available in the market, is a question of searching inside of you for what you really believe.

    There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example
    I suppose we had a bit of a misunderstanding then, but no big deal. My interest in Catholicism is sort of twofold: from an academic standpoint and as a possible, but not guaranteed, replacement for my lapsed Protestant beliefs. As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed. Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.

    As to how Espana ties into the U.S.A., let me just give a name that most Americans have never heard of: Bernardo de Galvez.
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

  2. #22
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed.
    I don't envy you. Liturgical abuse is far from uncommon since the Second Vatican Council, but from what I've seen the Church in the USA is particularly haywire.
    Some of the "Masses" that I've read about or even seen there defy words.

    However, I know there are a number of traditionlist communities there which are growing fast.
    It seems as the liberal congregations are leaking members, those returning to the traditions are going from strength to strength.
    You might be able to check who is now doing the Extraordinary Form and who is more traditionally minded from these guys - Una Voce America » Chapters

    Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.
    I wouldn't blame you if it did. I know it has little appeal for me.
    I believe some of the worst offenders of the Novus Ordo type are further from Catholicism than some of the more conservative Anglican and Lutheran services.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly Ver mensaje
    I don't envy you. Liturgical abuse is far from uncommon since the Second Vatican Council, but from what I've seen the Church in the USA is particularly haywire.
    Some of the "Masses" that I've read about or even seen there defy words.
    As I've said, the masses that I've gone to over here seem little better to me than Protestant services. I wasn't really impressed and I haven't gone back.

    However, I know there are a number of traditionlist communities there which are growing fast.
    It seems as the liberal congregations are leaking members, those returning to the traditions are going from strength to strength.
    You might be able to check who is now doing the Extraordinary Form and who is more traditionally minded from these guys - Una Voce America » Chapters

    I wouldn't blame you if it did. I know it has little appeal for me.
    I believe some of the worst offenders of the Novus Ordo type are further from Catholicism than some of the more conservative Anglican and Lutheran services.
    I only know of one church in my hometown where the Latin Mass is given but there're a plethora or "normal" Catholic churches. I don't live too far from two, to be exact. Quite honestly, Catholic churches seem to be a dime per dozen in the U.S.A., not to dump on the Church itself, but I have to wonder if the proliferation of Catholicism in the country has to do with the liberalized doctrines of Vatican II.
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

  4. #24
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example
    Truly the Hispanic Catholic influence is ubiquitous across the United States. Vibrant intact missions founded by the Spanish in the 16-1700 from Southern Texas to Northern California celebrate Masses to this day. From Portuguese linguiça and sweet bread that can be found in virtually every supermarket in the Northeast to Basque festivals in remote cities such as Boise ID, Ely NV and Yuma AZ. I've always wanted to take a drive down the Old Spanish Trail from San Diego CA to the oldest city in our nation St Augustine FL. The Mississippi River was initially named by Hernando DeSoto "River of the Holy Spirit" and then later it was called River of the Immaculate Conception by Marquette. Our national capital is surrounded by VIRGINia & MARYland. Our second largest city Los Angeles was originally called Nuestra Señora Reina de todos los Angeles , Alta California. LA is actually named after Our Lady Queen of the Angels, we should return it to the original name! Also we are the largest Christian denomination in this USA. If only we collectively returned and embraced our ancient faith how much more blessed this nation and the world would become.


    Below are some interesting links:
    Spirit Daily - Daily spiritual news from around the world

    Our Lady of America

  5. #25
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    The Irish Presence in the History and Place Names of Cuba
    http://www.irlandeses.org/0711fernandezmoya4.htm

    By Rafael Fernández Moya


    IV

    Upon the US American general Thomas Jordan’s arrival, who was named Chief of the High Command and later Head of the Liberation Army in the Camagüey region, W. O’Ryan was named inspector and chief of cavalry, before attaining the rank of general. He was sent on a mission to the United States, from where he set out to return to Cuba at the end of October 1873. He sailed aboard the American steamship Virginius as part of the leadership of an expedition also led by the generals Bernabé Varona Borrero (Bembeta) and Pedro Céspedes Castillo, as well as the colonel Jesús del Sol.

    The Virginius was captured by the Spanish warship Tornado off Cuban waters and was towed into the bay of Santiago de Cuba on 1 December. Five days later, by order of the Spanish authorities, all the leaders of the revolutionary expedition were executed, O’Ryan among them. On 7 December the ship’s captain, Joseph Fry, and 36 members of the crew, were executed, causing a diplomatic and political conflict between Spain and the United States. In honour of the independence fighter O’Ryan a street of the Sagarra subdivision in Santiago de Cuba was given his name.

    Rafael Fernández Moya
    Notes
    [1] The author is a Specialist in Commercial Management at the tourist company Habaguanex, and in the Historian’s Office of Havana.

  6. #26
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    It's incredible! Everywhere you look in the Hispanic world the Irish are there! From Imperial governors such as Juan O'Donojú/O'Donahue, to revolutionaries (Bernardo O'Higgins), to warriors (San Patricio Battalion) and Irish chieftains who were exiled in Spain. Also the Irish educators and religious who have quietly contributed so much to Spain and Hispanic America.


    Última edición por Milesian; 26/06/2011 a las 09:04

  7. #27
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    I suppose we had a bit of a misunderstanding then, but no big deal. My interest in Catholicism is sort of twofold: from an academic standpoint and as a possible, but not guaranteed, replacement for my lapsed Protestant beliefs. As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed. Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.
    Interesting. I have been to a Tridentine Mass that was done at a typical parish Church on one occasion. However it was really just done for curiosity sake. It was followed by a grand reception with heavy Hors d'œuvres, cider and champagne and then it was never done again. Also I have been to a very simple parish where a very holy Novos Ordo Mass takes place everyday. It is almost completely celebrated in Latin, incense is used, the Eucharist is received at the rail, and the church is only illuminated by candlelight during the Consecration. It was easy to see why so many vocations were originating from that particular parish. Also it was nice to see the mantillas instead of the short shorts and tight fitting jeans on the ladies.

  8. #28
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example


    Tortilla de Patata


    Boxty (Irish Potato Pancake)


    Irish Beef Pies


    Empanada


    Irish Stew


    Caldo Gallego
    Annuit Coeptis dio el Víctor.

  9. #29
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    ^
    I've got to say that some of this looks quite appetizing.
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

  10. #30
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Cita Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis Ver mensaje
    ^
    I've got to say that some of this looks quite appetizing.
    Next time you grill some meat top it off with some Chimichurri sauce. Which interestingly is said to have been invented by Irish-Argentine soldier Jimmy McCurry.

    skirt-steak-chimichurri-sauce-recipe-8875.jpgIMG_0757.JPGchimichurri1.jpg
    Erasmus dio el Víctor.

  11. #31
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?


  12. #32
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?


  13. #33
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Erasmus dio el Víctor.

  14. #34
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Excellent article from our friend Pat Flannery about how the Irish integrated excellently into Hispanic San Diego,California!
    Pat Flannery on the Web
    Scholars have long regarded Irish immigrants in America as a wretched lot, forced by powers beyond their control to emigrate to a country where they ultimately lived in squalid conditions, surrounded by poverty and despair.
    They portray the Irish immigrant as an urban dweller who could not make a niche for himself in American society until the second or third generation. This limited picture of the Irish experience in America fails to recognize that a substantial number of Irish immigrants did not remain among the squalor of New York or Boston, but suffered the hardships and reaped the fruits of the American frontier.
    Overlooked as part of the Irish Diaspora in America, the West presented many opportunities to the Irish who could endure the harsh conditions of the frontier. Dispersed throughout the Midwest and Western states, these immigrants had the opportunity to make an impact on their environment, rather than be acted upon by forces beyond their control. Unlike their eastern counterparts, the Irish who settled in the West managed to grow rapidly beyond the hunger and despair of famine-ridden Ireland to shape the development of the third largest state in the Union, California.
    From the first Irishman to visit the breathtaking coast of Santa Barbara in 1795, to the powerful and well-respected Irish rancheros in the San Francisco area and the Irish contractor who developed many of the first roads in San Diego, the Celtic presence is seen in many aspects of California’s development.
    Those Irish men and women who opted to settle the California frontier did not, however, leave a legacy of “Irishness” as did those who struggled in the eastern cities. Instead, they embraced the existing cultures and strove for the greater good of the entire community, especially in San Diego where the need for a separate and distinct Irish community did not exist. Those who braved the trans-Atlantic journey and the cross-country trek to settle on America's West Coast did not do so in order to create an Irish community on the Pacific Ocean. They did so in order to build a better life for themselves and their progeny, as well as contribute to the development of America’s newest state.
    Many Irish achievements in California, particularly southern California and San Diego, have been overlooked, however. Irish contributions to the development of “America’s Finest City” are all but ignored in San Diego history. Research shows that several of the prominent figures in Old Town and around San Diego County during the early American period hailed from the Emerald Isle. Local newspapers touted their achievements and fellow citizens recognized their names and faces as neighbors and friends, not as immigrants and outcasts, as Easterners viewed those of Celtic origin.
    Perhaps the influence of the Irish settlers in Southern California during the mid-to late-1800s has been overlooked precisely because of their integration and assimilation into the communities in which they lived.
    Many of the immigrants adopted so many of the local Mexican and Spanish customs that their lifestyles became indistinguishable from the “native” population. In some cases, the immigrants changed their Irish names in favor of the Spanish counterpart. Don Timoteo Murphy, a.k.a. Timothy Murphy, Juan Murray, a.k.a. John Murray, and Andrés Cassidy, a.k.a. Andrew Cassidy are just a few examples.
    This reflected the willingness on the part of the Irish in Southern California to adapt to their new environment and the ability of the locals to absorb newcomers. In San Diego, the Irish immigrants became important members of the community. They integrated into the community with ease partially because of the similarities between themselves and the Mexicans. Both were newly admitted to the United States, and both understood the trial of being an outcast in one's own land.
    The Mexicanos and the Irish shared a similar culture, rich in music, family life and religion. The latter similarity was crucial at a time when most Americans, particularly on the East Coast, embraced Anglo-Protestant customs. This sect of society viewed Catholics, notably the Irish Catholics, with suspicion and disdain. In southern California, however, Catholics comprised a majority of the population.
    The Irish immigrants who found a place in San Diego’s community remain, for the most part, nameless in an otherwise colorful history. With the modern development of San Diego, their homes and achievements lay buried in a past dominated by Spanish and Mexican history. Even a cursory glance through a census record reveals, however, that the Irish did survive the tortuous cross-country trek, and arduous trip around the horn of South America to prosper in San Diego.
    Irish surnames appear in property, tax and marriage records as evidence that they lived a full life, unaffected by the anti-Irish sentiment elsewhere in the United States. Several held important community posts, and one, James McCoy, served as a California State Senator in Sacramento during the 1870s.
    The Irish who settled in San Diego played a major role in the small town’s development from a sleepy frontier port to a major American city. The San Diegan Irish managed to escape the pitfalls of poverty and discrimination found on the East Coast and prospered among the locals, who remained receptive to the Celtic newcomers.
    Última edición por Milesian; 03/04/2012 a las 06:30

  15. #35
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    Re: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

    Libros antiguos y de colección en IberLibro
    There were Irish soldiers on both sides of the U.S. Civil War (the so-called Irish Brigades) and their ballads have continued to be popular to this day. Arguably my favorite one is here sung by David Kincaid (Irish-American), telling of the 11th New York Infantry and the 69th New York Militia, an Irish unit, at the Battle of Bull Run against the rebels (the tune mentions the charge upon the New York infantry by the Virginian Black Horse cavalry).

    The Boys That Wore the Green - David Kincaid at Historic Richmond Town's Tavern Concert Series. - YouTube

    Kincaid's ballads are well worth listening to but his brogue is a bit hard to comprehend.
    "And, as we Catholics know, Western Civilization is Roman Civilization, first classical Roman Civilization, then Roman Catholic Civilization, as the Christians preserved and carried classical Roman Civilization to the world in a Christianized form. That is, after all, why we are described as Roman Catholics."

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