Tema: The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?

wow this is amazing!, now I now why there are so many similar things between the north of Spain and Irish and even Scotish, are we all from the same family? LOL

There is unquestionably a connection!
Below are images of Irish and Irish-Americans who could easily pass as Northern Spanish or Portuguese.

This is a very interesting article about the Irish Captain Johnny O’Brien, and his great contribution to the Cuba War of Independence. I was aware of those expeditions, but didn’t know that an Irish Captain was in command of the expeditionary ships.

John Dynamite: Marine Mambí [1]

By José Antonio Quintana García

Translated by David Barnwell

As is known, one of the reasons for the failure of Cuba’s Ten Years’ War against the Spanish colonial power (1868-1878) was the small number of expeditions to land on the Cuban coast with military supplies for the Liberation Army. The Cuban revolutionary leadership in exile was aware of this, and from 24 February 1895, the date on which the independence struggle broke out for a second time, it assigned priority to the task of importing supplies for the revolutionary forces. Efforts were concentrated in the United States and came mainly from among the tobacco workers, though other elements of the Cuban émigre population were involved to a lesser extent. To make the enterprise more effective, an Expeditionary Department was created, with a constitution approved on 2 August 1896. Colonel Emilio Núñez was placed at its head.

Link: http://www.irlandeses.org/0711quintana1.htm

Well, I think there's another question on this matter that needs an answer of anthropology (Valmadian, I don't really know if you have already addressed this subject here in the forum, forgive me if you did). That question is: were the ancient celts so much pale, blond or read headed, as it's commonly said?

Even if they were at the start, I believe that after such a long journey of migration, conquest and settlement, that the celts had probably been through a big deal of morphology changes, apart from the more natural cultural changes. I also believe that the celts of Bretagne could be rather different than the celts from Ireland, for instance.

According to my knowledge of history, no significant iberian presence ever took place in the north-west of the Iberian Peninsula, from where all of my known ancestors were; and yet, I'm as blond as the dark night, as a vast majority of modern galicians and portuguese are. Even considering that the genes responsible for clear eyes and hair are recessive, nothing explains such lack of supposed celtic influence in these peoples modern look... and the same goes for Eire...

We should be careful in our definitions.
"Celtic" is purely a cultural distinction. Even back in classical and pre-historic times, the Celts were likely not one homogenous tribe but rather various peoples linked by a common culture, common language, common society and religious practices. In other words, they were Celtic because they belonged to a Celtic culture.
There is no Celtic morphological type just as there is no Celtic gene.

The Irish and Spanish are genetically very similar. This does not preclude either from being Celtic though.
Not all of Iberia was Celtic but some of it was, just as Ireland was not always Celtic but became some in time.
Being Celtic doesn't mean a tribe called the Celts came and took possession of the land. It meant that people settled who were Celts because they brought Celtic culture with them. That is what makes a people Celtic.

So yes, being Celtic does link Iberian and Hibernia.
But there is more to it than even that. It goes even further back to beyond Celtic societies (although in fact the Irish Q-Celtic language likely arrived from Iberia as opposed to the P-Celtic of the Britons which was likely related to Gaulish). Personally I am proud of my Celtic heritage. But I realise the links most likely reach back to the first modern humans in Europe. The link is an exceedingly ancient one, which has still not wholly faded but lingers on in an appreciation and respect among each of these ancient peoples for the other.

Hm, I have Irish ancestry in part. So does this make me an honorary Spaniard? :P

Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly

We should be careful in our definitions.
"Celtic" is purely a cultural distinction. Even back in classical and pre-historic times, the Celts were likely not one homogenous tribe but rather various peoples linked by a common culture, common language, common society and religious practices. In other words, they were Celtic because they belonged to a Celtic culture.
There is no Celtic morphological type just as there is no Celtic gene.

It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for putting it so clearly.

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

Hm, I have Irish ancestry in part. So does this make me an honorary Spaniard? :P

These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here...

Iniciado por Irmão de Cá

It makes perfect sense to me now. Thank you for putting it so clearly.

Go ndéana a mhaith duit

Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly

Go ndéana a mhaith duit

The same for you too... Gaelic is a total shambles to me, eheheh

"These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here..."

I was raised as a Protestant (Methodist) in New York State in the U.S.A. I an Anglo Americano, not a Hispano...

But, I met.... someone from Andalusia, who made me interested in true Catholicism. Tradismo? Prior to this, I just thought of Catholicism as little better than Methodism (a joke) in the U.S.A.

Now, I'm also interested in the language, history, and culture of Espana.. Especially how it pertains to the U.S.A.

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

"These days, to be an honorary spaniard (or an honorary portuguese for that matter) it's quite enough if you are a true catholic. For unbelievable it may seem, we're lacking them here..."
I was raised as a Protestant (Methodist) in New York State in the U.S.A. I an Anglo Americano, not a Hispano...

So sorry, you failed to qualify... just kidding ya...
In truth, to be a catholic is the first and strongest part of being hispanic; all of the culture, all of the hispanic way of life is rooted in the catholic faith; when I return to Portugal after being abroad, I know I'm back home when I see the white, clay roofed villages, when I hear the Church bell ringing the "Trindades" and when I smell grilled sardines, walking the street...

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

But, I met.... someone from Andalusia, who made me interested in true Catholicism. Tradismo? Prior to this, I just thought of Catholicism as little better than Methodism (a joke) in the U.S.A.

I didn't mean to imply that "true Catholicism" equals catholic traditionalism... rather, that a true catholic is a honest and coherent one, particularly when it comes to assume that condition in life... on the matter of Catholicism being better than protestantism, I think that faith is not a question of picking up the best religion available in the market, is a question of searching inside of you for what you really believe.

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

Now, I'm also interested in the language, history, and culture of Espana.. Especially how it pertains to the U.S.A.

There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example

Iniciado por Irmão de Cá

So sorry, you failed to qualify... just kidding ya...
I didn't mean to imply that "true Catholicism" equals catholic traditionalism... rather, that a true catholic is a honest and coherent one, particularly when it comes to assume that condition in life... on the matter of Catholicism being better than protestantism, I think that faith is not a question of picking up the best religion available in the market, is a question of searching inside of you for what you really believe.

There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example

I suppose we had a bit of a misunderstanding then, but no big deal. My interest in Catholicism is sort of twofold: from an academic standpoint and as a possible, but not guaranteed, replacement for my lapsed Protestant beliefs. As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed. Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.

As to how Espana ties into the U.S.A., let me just give a name that most Americans have never heard of: Bernardo de Galvez.

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed.

I don't envy you. Liturgical abuse is far from uncommon since the Second Vatican Council, but from what I've seen the Church in the USA is particularly haywire.
Some of the "Masses" that I've read about or even seen there defy words.

However, I know there are a number of traditionlist communities there which are growing fast.
It seems as the liberal congregations are leaking members, those returning to the traditions are going from strength to strength.
You might be able to check who is now doing the Extraordinary Form and who is more traditionally minded from these guys - Una Voce America » Chapters

Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.

I wouldn't blame you if it did. I know it has little appeal for me.
I believe some of the worst offenders of the Novus Ordo type are further from Catholicism than some of the more conservative Anglican and Lutheran services.

Iniciado por Alejandro O'Reilly

I don't envy you. Liturgical abuse is far from uncommon since the Second Vatican Council, but from what I've seen the Church in the USA is particularly haywire.
Some of the "Masses" that I've read about or even seen there defy words.

As I've said, the masses that I've gone to over here seem little better to me than Protestant services. I wasn't really impressed and I haven't gone back.

However, I know there are a number of traditionlist communities there which are growing fast.
It seems as the liberal congregations are leaking members, those returning to the traditions are going from strength to strength.
You might be able to check who is now doing the Extraordinary Form and who is more traditionally minded from these guys - Una Voce America » Chapters

I wouldn't blame you if it did. I know it has little appeal for me.
I believe some of the worst offenders of the Novus Ordo type are further from Catholicism than some of the more conservative Anglican and Lutheran services.

I only know of one church in my hometown where the Latin Mass is given but there're a plethora or "normal" Catholic churches. I don't live too far from two, to be exact. Quite honestly, Catholic churches seem to be a dime per dozen in the U.S.A., not to dump on the Church itself, but I have to wonder if the proliferation of Catholicism in the country has to do with the liberalized doctrines of Vatican II.

There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example

Truly the Hispanic Catholic influence is ubiquitous across the United States. Vibrant intact missions founded by the Spanish in the 16-1700 from Southern Texas to Northern California celebrate Masses to this day. From Portuguese linguiça and sweet bread that can be found in virtually every supermarket in the Northeast to Basque festivals in remote cities such as Boise ID, Ely NV and Yuma AZ. I've always wanted to take a drive down the Old Spanish Trail from San Diego CA to the oldest city in our nation St Augustine FL. The Mississippi River was initially named by Hernando DeSoto "River of the Holy Spirit" and then later it was called River of the Immaculate Conception by Marquette. Our national capital is surrounded by VIRGINia & MARYland. Our second largest city Los Angeles was originally called Nuestra Señora Reina de todos los Angeles , Alta California. LA is actually named after Our Lady Queen of the Angels, we should return it to the original name! Also we are the largest Christian denomination in this USA. If only we collectively returned and embraced our ancient faith how much more blessed this nation and the world would become.


Below are some interesting links:
Spirit Daily - Daily spiritual news from around the world

Our Lady of America

Iniciado por Annuit Coeptis

I suppose we had a bit of a misunderstanding then, but no big deal. My interest in Catholicism is sort of twofold: from an academic standpoint and as a possible, but not guaranteed, replacement for my lapsed Protestant beliefs. As I said, my encounters with Catholicism in the U.S.A. have left me more or less feeling underwhelmed. Expecting, say, Tridentine Mass and whanot, only to find a service little different, but more showy, than a typical Protestant service-- Kind of made me guess again, but I'm not exactly going to say that this turns me off of Catholicism completely.

Interesting. I have been to a Tridentine Mass that was done at a typical parish Church on one occasion. However it was really just done for curiosity sake. It was followed by a grand reception with heavy Hors d'œuvres, cider and champagne and then it was never done again. Also I have been to a very simple parish where a very holy Novos Ordo Mass takes place everyday. It is almost completely celebrated in Latin, incense is used, the Eucharist is received at the rail, and the church is only illuminated by candlelight during the Consecration. It was easy to see why so many vocations were originating from that particular parish. Also it was nice to see the mantillas instead of the short shorts and tight fitting jeans on the ladies.

There's a big deal of relation, I can tell you that: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, California, etc, etc... there's loads of things waiting for you to discover them; I'd start for the simple things if I were you... like tortilla de patata, for example

Tortilla de Patata


Boxty (Irish Potato Pancake)


Irish Beef Pies


Empanada


Irish Stew


Caldo Gallego

^
I've got to say that some of this looks quite appetizing.